Emmanuel Macron on TF1: possible referendums, renting prison places abroad, "unacceptable" Israeli actions in Gaza... the ten key moments of the interview

A format unseen since October 2022, that of Emmanuel Macron "on the grill" of a television set, according to the phrase used by the Élysée. And also an explosive cast to grill the head of state for more than three long hours this Tuesday evening, May 13 on TF1 . On the screens of the special program "The Challenges of France," notably appeared Blast journalist Salomé Saqué, who questioned him on youth, the former co-founder of Reporters Without Borders (RSF) Robert Ménard, now mayor of Béziers close to the far right, who unsurprisingly brought up security issues, and the head of the CGT union Sophie Binet, logically expected to speak on industry and pension reform. In the first part, the President of the Republic also spoke on international issues. Here are the ten key moments of the evening.

A few days after a trip to Kyiv, Emmanuel Macron was questioned at the beginning of the program about the war in Ukraine. He defended a balanced position of support for Volodymyr Zelensky, notably by sending weapons, without, however, "ever engaging in an escalation." "What is happening in Ukraine is about our security; we want peace," the head of state asserted. "We don't want to start World War III," he insisted, addressing those who accuse him of being "warmongering." But "we cannot abandon Ukraine," he insisted. He notably threatened Russia with new sanctions if it "confirms its failure to respect" a ceasefire.

Asked about the development of a more coordinated European defense, the President of the Republic highlighted the "nuclear doctrine." "Given the times we are living in, I wanted us to be able to engage, with all partners who wish to do so, in an exercise to see if we can go further," he added. He set three conditions for this approach: "France will not pay for others," "it will not come at the expense of what we need for ourselves," and finally, "the final decision" on the use of nuclear weapons "will always rest with the President of the Republic, head of the armed forces."

Much later in the show, the Elysée Palace resident turned to the situation in the Middle East, where he recently visited. Saying first that it was not up to him to describe the situation in Gaza as "genocide" , but rather to "historians", Emmanuel Macron then sharply denounced the Israeli Prime Minister's policy: "what Benjamin Netanyahu's government is doing today is unacceptable", "a disgrace", he added. He particularly regretted that "all the aid that France and other countries are delivering" is "blocked by the Israelis". Unlike the United States, which could twist Netanyahu's arm, because the Hebrew state "depends on American weapons" . In addition, the question of a revision of the "cooperation agreements" between the European Union and Israel is "open", threatened Emmanuel Macron.

In the rather heated discussion that pitted him against the general secretary of the CGT, Sophie Binet, the President was challenged on his economic theory. He did bring out his own graph on the rise in industrial job creation during his five-year terms, but the unionist pointed out to him that the curve has been inverting since 2023. And on the cases of Vencorex and ArcelorMittal , strategic industries, he dismissed the hypothesis of nationalizing them. Pressed to do so by Sophie Binet, he asserted that "nationalization serves no purpose" even if EDF was nationalized in 2022 to serve the country's ambitions in terms of nuclear recovery, "to say that nationalization is an answer is to lie to people."

"You are forcing us to work until 64. A reform imposed against the wishes of millions of workers," said Sophie Binet. who demanded a referendum to ask the French if they want to abolish the increase in the retirement age. Gilles Bouleau recalled in passing that 68% of those questioned are in favor of such a consultation. "No, no referendum," the head of state nevertheless dismissed. He reminded the head of the CGT that he had campaigned on this issue in 2022, believing he could draw legitimacy from it. And Sophie Binet retorted, hand on heart: "In front of you there was the extreme right, even I voted for you!" "Thank you first," Macron replied with a smile, before resuming his argument, without deviating one iota.

The head of state then called for the opening of a discussion on the financing of the French social model. " I would like to see a social conference held on the method of financing our social model. It is 80 years old this year; it is a treasure of the Republic. It is simply that its financing relies far too heavily on work," he said. "We must launch a discussion on the evolution of work," the president said, without, however, saying much more about the modalities.

Facing the mayor of Béziers, Robert Ménard, who recited his security obsessions, Emmanuel Macron announced an unprecedented measure: the rental of prison places abroad, in the event of prison overcrowding. Justice Minister Gérald Darmanin has reportedly "started to look into it," the president reported, according to whom this proposal "is one of the things we are prepared to do." The head of state also validated the idea of ​​making prisoners contribute to the costs of their incarceration , recently put on the table by Darmanin, and described as "entirely relevant."

The head of state defended the bill currently being examined in the National Assembly on end-of-life issues, a law he described as " balanced ," which will "develop our law ," and which he said he wanted "to be passed." He then opened the way for a referendum on the issue if the debate in the chamber stalls. " I will only do so if it is blocked, but first there is the work of parliament," he said.

Beyond the end-of-life issue, Emmanuel Macron has reiterated his desire, already expressed in his New Year's address on December 31, to " solicit " the French people through several referendums, without giving any further clues on the areas concerned. On immigration? "I don't see the issue that would fall within the scope of Article 11," he replies. To modernize the political system by introducing proportional representation in legislative elections? "Nonsense." On public finances, as François Bayrou wishes ? "If certain reforms can go to a referendum, why not. But we must be careful, economic and social reforms fall within the scope of Article 11, taxation and the budget are a parliamentary competence, not a subject for a referendum." In short, nothing is very clear.

Housing difficulties, endless queues at food distributions... This Tuesday evening, it was journalist Salomé Saqué who spoke out for young people and their problems . To address this, Emmanuel Macron announced a "social payment at source." "Young people who don't live with their parents, that's where there's poverty," he noted, proposing to create a "single grant" "so that a young person who doesn't live with their parents has a grant and APL," without giving further details. "But why now?" exclaimed Salomé Saqué. "Because it's extremely complicated, [...] it takes an awfully long time to set up," the president justified himself.

"Why not introduce nutrition classes in schools and increase the number of hours of sports in schools?" asked France's most-followed influencer , the world's number one on YouTube, who specializes in bodybuilding content. He points out that "a sedentary lifestyle and obesity are major public health problems." "Well, he's absolutely right," Emmanuel Macron responds immediately, in near complicity with the web star who has already revealed that he voted for him. "The 30 minutes of sport every day at school is a fantastic tool, as Tibo InShape said very well, for preventing overweight," he added.

The Prime Minister is the notable absentee from the evening, almost never mentioned by Emmanuel Macron, even though he is theoretically responsible for finding majorities in the Assembly, in the hope of getting everything the President has just announced passed. The Prime Minister is also expected this Wednesday for a hearing before the parliamentary commission of inquiry into the Bétharram affair. This was noted by Gilles Bouleau at the end of the broadcast. "François Bayrou, when he was a minister, fought against violence against children," he recalled, assuring that he had "spoken a lot" with him about the affair in question. " I know who he is. He's a man I've known for many years. I have confidence in him."